Ukrainian Conflict

[Tallifer]

Ukraine have sunk another large landing ship with sea drones.

The Tsezar Kunikov is the newest member of the Russian Black Sea Submarine fleet.

On land Ukraine are reporting hardships and ammunition shortages and are pulling back to better defensive positions along large parts of the front. But the aid relief bill has passed the first house vote in the states and European ammo production is being stepped up so hopefully these difficulties will pass. Russia continues to make small gains paid for in blood and equipment. Reports of average daily losses of 15-20 tanks , 30-40 APCs and 1000 men , mostly in the push for Avdivka

Originally Posted by azlea.anti

keep dreaming, tovarisch

what about Gazmanov's concert in Kiev after 3 days?

The general understanding among military analysts is that the march to Kiev was a political maneuver. The objective was to bring the Ukrainians to the negotiating table in which they succeded temporarily. If memory serves, they marched with about 30.000 troops. That's hardly enough to capture a city with a population of close to 3 million. As a consequence, the Russians and Ukrainians met up in Istanbul in March/April 2022 and almost came to an agreement when Boris Johnson showed up, telling the Ukrainians to drop out or Western support will cease. Looking back, signing an agreement seemed like a much better idea. Ukraine has lost half a million men (according to Pentagon sources), more territory and will continue to lose even more. Putin made a few hints at the "Russian city of Odessa." That may not be just a comment about the city's history.

I find these claims that the Russians lose 20 tanks and 1000 people per day rather preposterous, especially now. This may have been true in the beginning of the Russian invasion with the NATO-equipped and trained Ukrainian army fully intact. But the Ukrainian army has been destroyed. They have already lost strategically. Knowing this, the Russians are not engaging in large scale offensive operations because that means the loss of men at a much faster rate. They have absolute air and artillery superiority and they are patient with their "meat grinder" method. On the other hand, the Ukrainians were forced to initiate offensives in order to present results without which they will lose Western support. Nobody likes to waste tens of billions of dollars on a lost cause but that seems to be the case anyway.

Sure, Russians lose men and equipment. It's not a video game but war. But the Ukrainians lose 7 to 10 times more men and the equipment is pretty much gone. They would have surrendered in the summer of 2022 if it wasn't for NATO backing. That means the Russians are fighting all of NATO and winning. All this has been known for a while but everybody's looking for an off-ramp without losing face. Too many people died, too much money has been wasted and no one knows how to stop.

War is hell. And good business for the military-industrial complex. Most of the aid that has been pouring into Ukraine has been recycled to US pockets. Much of the money is reinvested into domestic arms manufacturing. When you read or hear the word "aid", you need to look closer. US politicians are bragging how "we're killing Russian boys" at a relatively low cost. They don't give a damn about the dead Ukrainians who were and still are sacrificed at the altar of their own financial interests. Yet a lot of people still believe this is about democracy.

General Zaluzhnyi has been relieved of command because he is no longer willing to sacrifice Ukrainian soldiers for Zelenskyy's PR needs. This is a man who is highly respected among his soldiers. He is a capable man but he can't work wonders. Zelenskyy appointed Oleksandr "The Butcher" Syrskyi who is prone to ordering suicide missions which is how he got his nickname. With generals like that, you don't need enemies.

[Tallifer]

The Russians are using human wave attacks as has been well documented . If Ukraine were losing 7-10 times what Russia is losing and Russia has lost over 250,000 dead then clearly there wouldn't be anyone left fighting if they had lost between 1.5 and 2 million dead. It's rubbish. (The Russian death told is widely recognised as being over 200,000) By contrast look at the established and documented deaths on the Russian side. From social media alone something 50,000 have been confirmed dead. Pryghozin himself said he had lost 20,000 in Bahkmut alone. The Russian MOD hasn't listed it's own deaths since November 2022 when they laughably put them at under 7000. Look at the satellite images of the Russian graveyards. Independent military analysis shows Russia has lost at least 3000 main battle tanks . There's countless pieces of footage of different instances of armoured columns getting hit badly on the website. The front is 600 miles long losing 20 tanks a day when you are pushing forward with poor tactics is perfectly reasonable. Personally I think it's likely to be 10-15, but you only gave to look at the wreckage around Vuhledar and Avdivka to know the one thing Russia has done well in this war is throw lives away.
The 40 mile column that advanced on Kyiv was a political show of force but it was totally designed to topple the regime. The last thing they expected was to have to fight but it was a large armoured force designed to bulky the opposition into quitting. No it wouldn't have been able to capture Kyiv but the idea that has been touted elsewhere online that it was some masterful tactical feint to draw away troops from the east is totally ridiculous. They stay there for three weeks being annihilated because there was no plan to capture anything because Putin's intelligence had wrongly said Ukraine would fold, all we got to do is turn up.
I've never seen the Pentagon say Ukraine has lost 500,000 dead. Can you post the link? Or vite the source. They may have 500,000 casualties, as they probably have suffered around 150,000 dead and casualties are usually treble the deaths, but there is no way on this planet they have lost more men than Russia at this point in time
I do agree with you to some extent about Zaluzhny and I personally don't think he should have been replaced. I wouldn't be surprised if he returns at a later date.

If Zaluzhnyi returns, it will be in a military coup. In regards to Ukrainian losses, the Pentagon will never admit them publicly. This information is coming from the inside. People like Colonel Douglas MacGregor talk about these numbers. Of course, we have no way of knowing for sure at this moment. We will have to wait until the war is over to get an approximate picture of Ukrainian and Russian casualties. It would also be interesting to discover how many Western mercenaries died.

The information you rely on is called a spin. I think you're in for a great surprise in a couple months as are many people. It's going to be another "Afghanistan moment" when the West pulls out and pretends it didn't happen. This war is not Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria where the US was fighting a third world army or a bunch of insurgents. What's happening in Ukraine has not been seen since World War 2, even though it is a rather limited war geographically. All the fighting is in the east but it's a slaughterhouse.

The number of Russian losses you give is very unrealistic. It is a number that President Putin would not be able to justify domestically. That's why this war is still dragging on. A pyrrhic victory is not a victory. War is not about territorial gains and "blitzkrieg." To win, you have to destroy the enemy, inflict as much harm as possible on his forces at the lowest possible cost for you. Everything else will fall in place by itself. The bulk of the fighting is done in east where the Ukrainians have been digging themselves in for 8 years with the help of NATO. Bakhmut, Avdeevka... those were/are tough nuts to crack. And just like the Russians, the Ukrainians are tough fighters. Despite everything, those guys have a similar, stubborn mentality. But the army the Ukrainians had in 2022 is long gone. Now they got those Nazi batallions like Azov, Aidar and Kraken in the rear, shooting everyone who's pulling back. The average Ukrainian soldier now is 43.

In the end, a political settlement will be reached. All wars end like that. I think General Zaluzhnyi has come to the conclusion that the war is lost and that it's about time to stop wasting Ukrainian lives. His political ambitions are also known, so I guess that's why Zelenskyy wanted him out. Remember, when the latter asked for Zaluzhnyi's resignation, he refused. That tells you a lot about the so-called democracy. Can you imagine a US general refusing an order from the commander-in-chief which is the US President? They had to fly in Victoria Nuland to prevent a potential civil war because the soldiers are behind Zaluzhnyi. It's a real mess. Before the war (which started in 2014 btw), all Western media was talking about the rampant corruption in Ukraine, how the country is ruled and exploited by oligarchs, how it is not ready to join the EU and NATO, only to become a paragon of democracy in 2022.

Well, no point in rhetoric contests anymore. Give it a couple months. We'll all get a better picture then.

[Gogolo]

Originally Posted by chrononaut

If Zaluzhnyi returns, it will be in a military coup. In regards to Ukrainian losses, the Pentagon will never admit them publicly. This information is coming from the inside. People like Colonel Douglas MacGregor talk about these numbers. Of course, we have no way of knowing for sure at this moment. We will have to wait until the war is over to get an approximate picture of Ukrainian and Russian casualties. It would also be interesting to discover how many Western mercenaries died.

The information you rely on is called a spin. I think you're in for a great surprise in a couple months as are many people. It's going to be another "Afghanistan moment" when the West pulls out and pretends it didn't happen. This war is not Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria where the US was fighting a third world army or a bunch of insurgents. What's happening in Ukraine has not been seen since World War 2, even though it is a rather limited war geographically. All the fighting is in the east but it's a slaughterhouse.

The number of Russian losses you give is very unrealistic. It is a number that President Putin would not be able to justify domestically. That's why this war is still dragging on. A pyrrhic victory is not a victory. War is not about territorial gains and "blitzkrieg." To win, you have to destroy the enemy, inflict as much harm as possible on his forces at the lowest possible cost for you. Everything else will fall in place by itself. The bulk of the fighting is done in east where the Ukrainians have been digging themselves in for 8 years with the help of NATO. Bakhmut, Avdeevka... those were/are tough nuts to crack. And just like the Russians, the Ukrainians are tough fighters. Despite everything, those guys have a similar, stubborn mentality. But the army the Ukrainians had in 2022 is long gone. Now they got those Nazi batallions like Azov, Aidar and Kraken in the rear, shooting everyone who's pulling back. The average Ukrainian soldier now is 43.

In the end, a political settlement will be reached. All wars end like that. I think General Zaluzhnyi has come to the conclusion that the war is lost and that it's about time to stop wasting Ukrainian lives. His political ambitions are also known, so I guess that's why Zelenskyy wanted him out. Remember, when the latter asked for Zaluzhnyi's resignation, he refused. That tells you a lot about the so-called democracy. Can you imagine a US general refusing an order from the commander-in-chief which is the US President? They had to fly in Victoria Nuland to prevent a potential civil war because the soldiers are behind Zaluzhnyi. It's a real mess. Before the war (which started in 2014 btw), all Western media was talking about the rampant corruption in Ukraine, how the country is ruled and exploited by oligarchs, how it is not ready to join the EU and NATO, only to become a paragon of democracy in 2022.

Well, no point in rhetoric contests anymore. Give it a couple months. We'll all get a better picture then.

Finally, sanity, not propaganda.

[Gogolo]

Originally Posted by azlea.anti

'Kyiv' not 'Kiev', tovarisch

you got it

What is this Kyiv, tovarisch?

[reclaimer]

This thread has just devolved into exchanges of propaganda. It may be reopened if when/something MAJOR happens.