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pelham456 · 8th March 2020, 21:53

i'm late to the game of (american) football. so some of the rules and jargon are still confusing me.

the MOST puzzling, tho, is this practice of "taking a knee" near the end of the game. when we did that in school it was b/c we were LOSING badly and realized it was too late to turn things around. mid-game "forfeit".

here, tho, it seems to be the WINNING teams doing it...i assume b/c the amount of time left is less than the amount of time they are alloted to set up their next play?

but last week, for example, one team did it at the 1:37 mark. how is that close enuf? isn't the play clock like 10 seconds or 30 seconds in most cases?

please give me the "for dummies" version. as in "...must be under XX mins remaining..." "...must be on YY down..." "...must be more than one possession worth (8 points) ahead..." etc etc.

seems like a basic concept, but every time they do it, i'm like "huh? NOW?!"

tx!

merilGuana · 9th March 2020, 14:43

has to be inside the 2 minute warning, team has to make a first down. basically if you get a first down after the 2 min warning, you basically have enough to run the clock out to nothing no matter what, that's why the formation is called the Victory formation

JustKelli · 10th March 2020, 15:31

"Kneeling" can occur at any time during a game but yes it is primarily used in the final minutes. Taking a knee is considered a running play which keeps the clock running but ends that down, unlike a passing play that stops the clock on an incompletion.

Kneeling is also used on kickoffs when a player doesn't believe running the ball out of the endzone will be advantageous. The ball is then placed on the 25 yard line to begin a set of downs.

lordbrandon04 · 13th March 2020, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by merilGuana

has to be inside the 2 minute warning, team has to make a first down. basically if you get a first down after the 2 min warning, you basically have enough to run the clock out to nothing no matter what, that's why the formation is called the Victory formation

It doesn't have to be used just in the final 2 minutes. It is primarily used in the final 2 minutes of the game. It is also used right before halftime if the team with the ball doesn't have the field position or time to make a score.

It can also be used for setting up field goals to get the kicker in a better spot depending on which foot he kicks from, time management and/or wind direction.

It can also be used just to run time off the clock if there is a blowout. ie Ole Miss/LSU in 2011 or 2012 (can't remember the year off the top of my head)

ellias · 14th March 2020, 17:12

Also used by the team with more points at the end of games as to not be accused of running up the score on an opponent. There was an NBA game in the last couple of weeks where the team with more points was lackadaisically bringing the ball up court and had the ball stolen by the opponent and he went in for a lay up attempt. It pissed off the eventual winner that the lay up was blocked. Apparently the eventual winner felt that because he was laying down when the clock had only 10 seconds left, that the loser should have also laid down. Funny how that works.

carolina73 · 30th May 2020, 19:58

It can be used for many reasons.
You are leading by 30 points and you don't want to embarass the other team by scoring again.
You can be losing by 30 points and you don't want to embarass your own team anymore and just need to get of the field.
You can be leading by just a couple of points and don't want any risk of fumbling the ball.

In American football you are down when your knee hits the ground and you have possession. Taking a knee is in no way symbolic. You are not praying or protesting. Your just being called down in the fastest manner and avoiding a hit that may cause a fumble..

DominicanD · 30th May 2020, 20:46

And just to clarify, in the NFL the play clock is 40 seconds every time. So if they do it after the two minute warning and the opposing team has no timeouts left, they can do it three times to run out the clock and secure the victory.

pelham456 · 10th November 2020, 11:08

thanks especially to that last post. 40x3 = 2 mins. ok, things finally starting to make sense.

but in yesterday's game, @2:13 announcers say "ok, they'll take a knee and get us to the 2-min mark". say whu...? so it's not even game-final always?

come to think of it, i'm not even sure that was Q4! iirc, it was Q2, 2:13, knee to wrap things up. (or maybe NOT wrap things up? did they continue from 2:00 onwards?! can't remember)

i still don't get the TIMEOUTS either. everyone makes such a HUGE deal out of them. do they reset the clock or something?

like, in your example, so WHAT if the other team has timeouts left? u still take ur 3 knees at 40 sec apiece -- before or after -- what has changed?

pelham456 · 25th January 2021, 07:29

wiki has cleared some of this up

Code:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_kneel

but i still don't get the "timeouts" thing. in the last example of the "defense" section, for example, we find:

"...coach Ruffin McNeill ordered his team to take a knee with 1:47 left on the clock and a 30-26 lead. [other team] used its final timeout, preventing [McNeill team] from running out the clock"

HOW?!

they finish their timeout, u go right back to kneeling or playing or w/e else u were about to do. how does a timeout affect ANYTHING?!

do u lose a down or something when your opponent takes a timeout? otherwise how does it affect u IN THE LEAST?

Ripe · 25th January 2021, 18:56

Timeout stop the clock, which restart only once the ball is snapped.

So in your example, after "taking a knee" at 1:47 offense could run the clock down to 1:08 before making a play (or 1:07 if offense have timeouts available), but because defense called a timeout clock is stopped and next play will start at 1:47.

8th March 2020, 21:53	#1
pelham456 Registered User Clinically Insane Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,028 Thanks: 768 Thanked 3,650 Times in 1,730 Posts	taking a knee 101 i'm late to the game of (american) football. so some of the rules and jargon are still confusing me. the MOST puzzling, tho, is this practice of "taking a knee" near the end of the game. when we did that in school it was b/c we were LOSING badly and realized it was too late to turn things around. mid-game "forfeit". here, tho, it seems to be the WINNING teams doing it...i assume b/c the amount of time left is less than the amount of time they are alloted to set up their next play? but last week, for example, one team did it at the 1:37 mark. how is that close enuf? isn't the play clock like 10 seconds or 30 seconds in most cases? please give me the "for dummies" version. as in "...must be under XX mins remaining..." "...must be on YY down..." "...must be more than one possession worth (8 points) ahead..." etc etc. seems like a basic concept, but every time they do it, i'm like "huh? NOW?!" tx!

10th March 2020, 15:31	#3
JustKelli Beware, The Wicked Are Well Rested Clinically Insane Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: North of the 49th parallel Posts: 3,732 Thanks: 4,459 Thanked 13,072 Times in 3,617 Posts	"Kneeling" can occur at any time during a game but yes it is primarily used in the final minutes. Taking a knee is considered a running play which keeps the clock running but ends that down, unlike a passing play that stops the clock on an incompletion. Kneeling is also used on kickoffs when a player doesn't believe running the ball out of the endzone will be advantageous. The ball is then placed on the 25 yard line to begin a set of downs. __________________ If you don't like me, you are the one with the problem!!! Last edited by JustKelli; 10th March 2020 at 15:37.

25th January 2021, 07:29	#9
pelham456 Registered User Clinically Insane Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,028 Thanks: 768 Thanked 3,650 Times in 1,730 Posts	wiki has cleared some of this up Code: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_kneel but i still don't get the "timeouts" thing. in the last example of the "defense" section, for example, we find: "...coach Ruffin McNeill ordered his team to take a knee with 1:47 left on the clock and a 30-26 lead. [other team] used its final timeout, preventing [McNeill team] from running out the clock" HOW?! they finish their timeout, u go right back to kneeling or playing or w/e else u were about to do. how does a timeout affect ANYTHING?! do u lose a down or something when your opponent takes a timeout? otherwise how does it affect u IN THE LEAST?

9th March 2020, 14:43	#2
merilGuana I Got Banned Addicted Join Date: Oct 2018 Posts: 114 Thanks: 201 Thanked 276 Times in 105 Posts	has to be inside the 2 minute warning, team has to make a first down. basically if you get a first down after the 2 min warning, you basically have enough to run the clock out to nothing no matter what, that's why the formation is called the Victory formation

14th March 2020, 17:12	#5
ellias Registered User Addicted Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 121 Thanks: 1,991 Thanked 282 Times in 102 Posts	Also used by the team with more points at the end of games as to not be accused of running up the score on an opponent. There was an NBA game in the last couple of weeks where the team with more points was lackadaisically bringing the ball up court and had the ball stolen by the opponent and he went in for a lay up attempt. It pissed off the eventual winner that the lay up was blocked. Apparently the eventual winner felt that because he was laying down when the clock had only 10 seconds left, that the loser should have also laid down. Funny how that works.

30th May 2020, 19:58	#6
carolina73 Addicted Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 587 Thanks: 1,610 Thanked 1,709 Times in 508 Posts	It can be used for many reasons. You are leading by 30 points and you don't want to embarass the other team by scoring again. You can be losing by 30 points and you don't want to embarass your own team anymore and just need to get of the field. You can be leading by just a couple of points and don't want any risk of fumbling the ball. In American football you are down when your knee hits the ground and you have possession. Taking a knee is in no way symbolic. You are not praying or protesting. Your just being called down in the fastest manner and avoiding a hit that may cause a fumble..

30th May 2020, 20:46	#7
DominicanD Junior Member Virgin Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 7 Thanks: 54 Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts	And just to clarify, in the NFL the play clock is 40 seconds every time. So if they do it after the two minute warning and the opposing team has no timeouts left, they can do it three times to run out the clock and secure the victory.

10th November 2020, 11:08	#8
pelham456 Registered User Clinically Insane Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,028 Thanks: 768 Thanked 3,650 Times in 1,730 Posts	thanks especially to that last post. 40x3 = 2 mins. ok, things finally starting to make sense. but in yesterday's game, @2:13 announcers say "ok, they'll take a knee and get us to the 2-min mark". say whu...? so it's not even game-final always? come to think of it, i'm not even sure that was Q4! iirc, it was Q2, 2:13, knee to wrap things up. (or maybe NOT wrap things up? did they continue from 2:00 onwards?! can't remember) i still don't get the TIMEOUTS either. everyone makes such a HUGE deal out of them. do they reset the clock or something? like, in your example, so WHAT if the other team has timeouts left? u still take ur 3 knees at 40 sec apiece -- before or after -- what has changed?

25th January 2021, 18:56	#10
Ripe Registered User Virgin Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 7 Thanks: 370 Thanked 78 Times in 2 Posts	Timeout stop the clock, which restart only once the ball is snapped. So in your example, after "taking a knee" at 1:47 offense could run the clock down to 1:08 before making a play (or 1:07 if offense have timeouts available), but because defense called a timeout clock is stopped and next play will start at 1:47.