Pet Peeves, dislikes, & things you don't understand in porn?

[Karmafan]

I don't download russian porn either for the same reason. Most of the girls look like they are hostages being forced to do the scenes while a russian mafia guy stands nearby oiling his gun. They are there having sex but clearly many of them don't appear to like what they are doing. Or they look all glassy eyed like they are high as a kite and don't even know they are having sex.

[ebbie]

I did not for one moment suggest that all was well in the 80s. You only have to look at what happened to Tori Welles to see that. However, the style of scene produced and the way people behaved on camera was entirely different and in no way as habitually extreme. The biggest stars of the day were the likes of Barbara Dare and Hyapatia Lee. Can you recall either of them being pissed on or spat on? Pushed around? Slapped beyond a playful whack on the behind? Abused in any way that wasn't obviously play acting? I've been racking my brain and I can't. I can't recall a scene involving Raylene or Raquel Darrian that made for uncomfortable viewing.

It seems very much that the Europeans [and I excluded the Russians/Eastern Europeans from this as they tend to be quite indifferent to the wellbeing of their cannon fodder] know what sex is. They grasp subtlety and understand the difference between kinky and abusive. They'll use feathers but rarely the whole chicken. Americans and Russians too often do not understand or care to understand these distinctions. They tend to use the whole chicken from day one and after a few months add another and another and another. There's no self restraint or sense of control. This is because a] the girl is seen as expendable and therefore not a person and b] what is often being produced has little to do with sex and everything to do with domination, degradation, power and control. While this can stimulate a sexual response in some people it's not anything to do with sex per se. It is the same psychological response - albeit in lesser form - that spurs on many serial sex offenders and killers.

I think the distinction you are trying to make is between energetic and even frantic sex and rough and abusive behaviour. They aren't the same. Swinging from the lampshade is not the same as smacking your bitch up. If you look at many scenes involving Gianna Michaels for instance, both she and the fellow are being quite determined but they are doing so from a point of equality and you never get the sense that things could go badly. Her scenes would be far better in my view if she didn't hawk and spit like an Arab street trader, but some people like that so what's to do? Similarly Harmony Rose, who tends to get slapped around a fair bit in her scenes and obviously likes it, never seems to be a victim and always looks to be in control. But I have seen many scenes where the girl looks frightened, bruised and shocked. What the hell is sexy about a man forcing his member so hard down a girl's throat that she gags and chokes, often to the point of panic because she cannot breathe, and when he withdraws finally she is vomiting sputum, her eyes watering so hard that her makeup streaks down her face and torso? How is it sexy for a man to use his penis to prevent her from breathing? Or to hold her face down and restrain her by putting a foot on her head, pinning it to the floor while ramming himself so far up her back passage that she screams in pain rather than pleasure, and when he does finally let her up all you can see is the welted imprint of his foot on her cheeckbone where his full weight was braced as he thrust?

Such scenes are not peeves to me. I find them genuinely disturbing. Almost as disturbing as the fact that they are becoming the defacto norm for a porn scene and increasing numbers find them arousing and see nothing wrong in that - which means they would have no qualms or compunctions about replicating such actions in their private lives and would likely blame the girl for being prudish if she refused or objected. It is precisely what would not have happened as a generality in the 80s and early/mid 90s and is exactly my point

Originally Posted by evil-pineapples

I just want to be clear on one point. I'm a fan of rough sex. I'm not a fan of degradation.

I suppose that the big thing about rough sex that turns me on is the submissive element of it, but that doesn't mean that I like seeing girls get choked / pissed on / drug around the carpet / punched. (I've seen girls get punched. It's pretty disgusting.) I like seeing rough sex, but I don't like seeing rough behavior.

If that makes any sense.



You're thinking too much about American porn. European porn has been focusing on anal sex for almost twenty years. (Private got the ball rolling in the early '90s, and even before they came along, the Italians were doing it.) American porn featured anal sex in a large role in the '80s as a very profitable niche genre until AIDS became widespread and the genre died out for about a decade. I do agree that breakdowns, addictions, and medical problems are a very serious issue in the porn industry, but it's not like the '80s were sunshine and rainbows.

These problems have been around since the birth of the industry and they'll probably still be around as long as it continues to exist. The social stigma against pornography and sex workers will never go away, and that's what causes the breakdowns and addictions.

The medical problems are a legitimate issue, and they do seem to be a result of rougher sexual trends in porn, but they also seem to be largely confined to America. European porn stars do sometimes develop medical problems, but that usually occurs as a result of entry into the American porn industry. If you look at girls who perform most of their scenes for European production companies like Private, they don't tend to have as many problems. In fact, many of them come away "squeaky clean," or at least as clean as you can be after working in the porn industry for several years. Private hasn't been kind to the behind either, especially when guys like Woodman and Lecastel have come in to do their dirty work, but girls like Tania Russof, the Ridere twins, Olivia Del Rio, Angel Dark, Lucy Lee, and Michelle Wild have consistently come away from their European tours of duty with generally good health.

[ebbie]

You've pretty much grasped what I was saying, and made some interesting points besides.
Thankyou.

Originally Posted by Fifi88

Well I like guys to do this stuff to me (the right guys in the right environment, obviously)
and so I like to see it on the screen

EDIT: rough sex, not loogies! LOL

- but you do have to draw a line somewhere. It's easy to tell the difference between rough scenes where people are all totally prepared for what's going on and rough scenes which border on abuse (or scenes where, even if the performers are too blase to feel genuinely degraded, the tone of the scene is more about woman hating than any kind of lust).

Nothing wrong with a bit of choking, bad-mouthing, slapping, humiliation etc (or even non-loogie spitting) if it's clearly being done as part of a sexual ritual. Sure, there will be dumb young boys watching it and thinking it's ok to treat every girl they meet like this on a first date, but you'd hope most of them would discover pretty quickly that this isn't going to work out too well for them. I love scenes like this done well by someone like Manuel Ferrara or even Rocco (who definitely crosses the line sometimes but always looks desperately turned on, which makes it seem a bit less nasty... no pun intended). What can I say? It makes me horny, it doesn't make me feel insulted, so long as it still looks like sex.

There is something very wrong with BangBus, though (to pick one example at random). That's got nothing to do with sex or desire, it's just brainless men "acting" like scum and some girl paid to look frightened and intimidated... or maybe feeling genuinely frightened and intimidated. I can't see how something like that is remotely defensible. I really, really hate that kind of truly misogynistic porn - from Max Hardcore on down - and I do think less of anyone who gets off on it. Do you know what I mean? You get the feeling that those people really do hate and fear women, but I've never got that feeling from guys like the ones mentioned favourably above.

There's lots of really vicious girl-girl stuff, too, which is often fantastic. Do guys here feel less uncomfortable watching very rough sex if it's done in a MFF threesome like Melissa Lauren's Hellfire Sex scenes? The guy is still bringing the rough stuff but he's being helped out and almost ordered about by another woman. I love those scenes myself, but I wonder if the different power relationship makes them seem less unpleasant to people who don't normally like this stuff?

It's funny, most of the men I know are pretty feminist - which is really good - but it means they're often surprised that I like porn, let alone rough porn. I think their attitude is it's politically correct for me to like it but not them... which I just don't understand. I mean, better that than a world full of rampaging men all wanting to dominate women I suppose, that could get scary. But it's weird how they associate sexual preferences with political attitudes. I guess I don't think things are quite that simple.

(I should say again, I get as disturbed as anyone - possibly more disturbed - by genuinely unpleasant-looking behaviour or attitudes in porn. Or any suggestion that the woman is really, really unhappy doing what she's doing. I don't download Russian clips for that reason... something really creepy and not-right about a lot of them)

[DoctorNo]

Originally Posted by ebbie

They are however prime examples of personal abuse and degradation.

It's not abuse if it's voluntary.

Originally Posted by ebbie

When people start to accept such behaviour as the norm, that behaviour bleeds out into cultural behaviour in every day life.

Except that hasn't happened.

[Karmafan]

What happened to Tori Wells back in the 80s?

[bakajin]

1) people who have sex in some "public" location and they get completely nude. Ever had sex in an office? Did you take off all your clothes? If you did, you're braver than I am, lol.

2) girls in high heels with her "school uniform." If you're gonna do it, do it right or not at all.

[ebbie]

basically she turned into a crack whore. There's a home video of her floating about. She's an utter wasted state.

Originally Posted by Karmafan

What happened to Tori Wells back in the 80s?

[ebbie]

Oh please. How naive are you?

Originally Posted by DoctorNo

It's not abuse if it's voluntary.



Except that hasn't happened.

[fireboy101]

I am not a big fan of stockings, or anything fabric that covers the bare leg, IDK why, but it's just something I never liked.

[DoctorNo]

Originally Posted by ebbie

Oh please. How naive are you?

If it's consensual, then it's not abuse. Although some producers do make more of an effort to make that point, such as the little conversations at the end of the Men in Pain videos.

People have not started to accept such behavior as the norm, nor has that behavior bled out into cultural behavior in every day life. Because I can't remember the last time myself and ten other guys in a junkyard were serviced by the same thirty-year-old woman in a cheerleader outfit