13th August 2010, 10:43 | #431 |
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13th August 2010, 15:57 | #432 |
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Precisely my point. But apparently "Some people are into being submissive, or willing to pretend to be. That doesn't make it "mysoginistic""
I however do not equate the treatment of someone like shit with bondage or submission. It's an entirely different thing. Watch any episode of something like Bangbus and tell me the girl likes being spoken to and handled in that manner. |
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13th August 2010, 17:41 | #433 |
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I have no idea what she really likes to do in her spare time, but as an actress she is doing it voluntarily. There are also plenty of videos where men are treated just as badly. Like I posted in another thread, Sasha Grey is huge star with lots of money. She doesn't need to drink urine, lick toilets, etc., but she does anyway. Now if you don't like watching that stuff, that's fine, I don't either, but it doesn't make it an example of political oppression.
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13th August 2010, 21:12 | #434 | |
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Firstly they aren't actresses. It doesn't matter how they might want to salve their sensibilities by dressing it up, or how anyone might want to ease their consciences by redefining it. Fucking in front of a camera is not drama. It's pornography. The presence of a lens does not in any way reclassify what either party is doing. They are fucking for money. The two things are largely mutually exclusive outside of productions by the likes of Vivid and even then the terms can only be loosely applied since any plot in evidence is merely a vague device to get us to the fucking and to attempt to lend a little credibility. Shasha Grey is not Meryl Streep and Rebecca Linares is not Sandra Bullock. Streep and Bullock are actresses. Grey and Linares are pornographic performers. Big difference.
Last edited by ebbie; 13th August 2010 at 21:45.
Secondly, none of these things are an example of political oppression. They are however prime examples of personal abuse and degradation. This is an important distinction also. It is important too to note that since this behaviour is becoming more prevellant outside of fetish producers like Pissmops, it is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore it. More and more of these scenes show the woman being bullied, insulted, spat on and degraded often by groups of men behaving like feral gangs. That's a dangerous precedent. People accept what they see on a screen as "ok". I've cited examples of this acceptance posted in other threads on this board earlier in this thread. When people start to accept such behaviour as the norm, that behaviour bleeds out into cultural behaviour in every day life. Since pornography has demonstrated a willingness, even an enthusiasm to constantly push the boundaries of acceptability as hard as it can, and different groups seem to be competing with who can be the most extreme, the inevitable conclusions are not hard to foresee. One would have to be both blind and irredeemably stupid not to understand that. Quote:
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13th August 2010, 21:58 | #435 | |
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13th August 2010, 22:32 | #436 | |
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I don't think so. The boundaries of acceptability are being pushed back and challenged as a matter of course, and since the producers of such material aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer, rather than being imaginative with how they set their scenes, their answer is to look at what others are doing and do it harder. Almost every scene in more mainstream porn follows similar lines now. Wank-Blow-Fuck-Anal-Blow/Wank/Facial. It doesn't matter who is producing for what or who is performing. The formula is largely interchangeable. To appear more "lustful" more guys are doing things like treading on the girls' face or slapping their breasts hard [which can actually cause cancerous cysts to form. Why do you think female boxers must wear heavily padded chest guards?]. spitting is common as is verbal abuse. I suppose they equate aggression with a demonstration of desire [did someone call these emotionally divorced morons "actors"?] and all is gradually creeping to more extremes as each seeks to outdo the other. More is better right? Badder is better right?
This is what pornography does. It pushes and pushes as they all try to outdo each other. We may be at the thin end of a long wedge but we are on it, whether people want to see it and admit it or not. A few years ago anal sex was a rarity. Now girls are having so much shoved up their backsides so hard and so often they are prolapsing. Breakdowns are common. Addiction is common. Far more common than ever they were. You may choose to think that none of this is related and it's all purely coincidental. I do not. If you want to see the way treatment of women in porn scenes has degraded over time pick random scenes from the last fifteen or twenty years. A couple from each year. Watch them. Then just follow the gradient curve to see where we'll be in five years or ten. Then look at how this material has influence people - especially now when the internet allows the impressionable young to see such material - and again follow the gradient curve. It doesn't take a genius to see what's plainly there. Quote:
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14th August 2010, 00:30 | #437 |
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Lets look at anal sex. In the 70s very few scenes had anal sex. Now in order to push the boundaries almost every DVD has at least 1 anal sex scene. For Euro girls virtually every single girl does anal and many have anal right from their first scene and most of their scenes follow the same format... oral to male ---> oral to female ---> intercourse ---> anal ---> money shot. Or the anal becomes a DP. If you see 2 males in a scene with the girl its almost guaranteed to end up in anal/dp.
Last edited by Karmafan; 14th August 2010 at 02:34.
Here in the US almost every female star also does anal. Only a few stars refuse to do anal (Gina Lynn, Priya Rai, Brandy Talore, Faye Reagan, Sara Stone, etc...). This same pushing the boundaries has also moved interracial sex into the mainstream now. Most of the top male stars also happen to be black men (Lex Steele, Mr Marcus, Rico Strong, Sean Michaels, Jack Napier, Shane Diesel, Justin Long). The natural next step of pushing the boundaries would be abusing the female talent. I can't stand it when the girl is humiliated or degraded. |
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14th August 2010, 00:44 | #438 | ||
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I suppose that the big thing about rough sex that turns me on is the submissive element of it, but that doesn't mean that I like seeing girls get choked / pissed on / drug around the carpet / punched. (I've seen girls get punched. It's pretty disgusting.) I like seeing rough sex, but I don't like seeing rough behavior. If that makes any sense. Quote:
These problems have been around since the birth of the industry and they'll probably still be around as long as it continues to exist. The social stigma against pornography and sex workers will never go away, and that's what causes the breakdowns and addictions. The medical problems are a legitimate issue, and they do seem to be a result of rougher sexual trends in porn, but they also seem to be largely confined to America. European porn stars do sometimes develop medical problems, but that usually occurs as a result of entry into the American porn industry. If you look at girls who perform most of their scenes for European production companies like Private, they don't tend to have as many problems. In fact, many of them come away "squeaky clean," or at least as clean as you can be after working in the porn industry for several years. Private hasn't been kind to the behind either, especially when guys like Woodman and Lecastel have come in to do their dirty work, but girls like Tania Russof, the Ridere twins, Olivia Del Rio, Angel Dark, Lucy Lee, and Michelle Wild have consistently come away from their European tours of duty with generally good health.
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14th August 2010, 01:12 | #439 |
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ONLY YOU CAN PREVENT A FOREST FIRE.......and only you can make a big stank about this epidemic ruining porn for millions |
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14th August 2010, 01:37 | #440 |
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Well I like guys to do this stuff to me (the right guys in the right environment, obviously)
and so I like to see it on the screen EDIT: rough sex, not loogies! LOL - but you do have to draw a line somewhere. It's easy to tell the difference between rough scenes where people are all totally prepared for what's going on and rough scenes which border on abuse (or scenes where, even if the performers are too blase to feel genuinely degraded, the tone of the scene is more about woman hating than any kind of lust). Nothing wrong with a bit of choking, bad-mouthing, slapping, humiliation etc (or even non-loogie spitting) if it's clearly being done as part of a sexual ritual. Sure, there will be dumb young boys watching it and thinking it's ok to treat every girl they meet like this on a first date, but you'd hope most of them would discover pretty quickly that this isn't going to work out too well for them. I love scenes like this done well by someone like Manuel Ferrara or even Rocco (who definitely crosses the line sometimes but always looks desperately turned on, which makes it seem a bit less nasty... no pun intended). What can I say? It makes me horny, it doesn't make me feel insulted, so long as it still looks like sex. There is something very wrong with BangBus, though (to pick one example at random). That's got nothing to do with sex or desire, it's just brainless men "acting" like scum and some girl paid to look frightened and intimidated... or maybe feeling genuinely frightened and intimidated. I can't see how something like that is remotely defensible. I really, really hate that kind of truly misogynistic porn - from Max Hardcore on down - and I do think less of anyone who gets off on it. Do you know what I mean? You get the feeling that those people really do hate and fear women, but I've never got that feeling from guys like the ones mentioned favourably above. There's lots of really vicious girl-girl stuff, too, which is often fantastic. Do guys here feel less uncomfortable watching very rough sex if it's done in a MFF threesome like Melissa Lauren's Hellfire Sex scenes? The guy is still bringing the rough stuff but he's being helped out and almost ordered about by another woman. I love those scenes myself, but I wonder if the different power relationship makes them seem less unpleasant to people who don't normally like this stuff? It's funny, most of the men I know are pretty feminist - which is really good - but it means they're often surprised that I like porn, let alone rough porn. I think their attitude is it's politically correct for me to like it but not them... which I just don't understand. I mean, better that than a world full of rampaging men all wanting to dominate women I suppose, that could get scary. But it's weird how they associate sexual preferences with political attitudes. I guess I don't think things are quite that simple. (I should say again, I get as disturbed as anyone - possibly more disturbed - by genuinely unpleasant-looking behaviour or attitudes in porn. Or any suggestion that the woman is really, really unhappy doing what she's doing. I don't download Russian clips for that reason... something really creepy and not-right about a lot of them) |
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